What if one quiet habit in your team is draining its trust and innovation? In this episode of The TripleGoal Podcast (previously The Secret Life of Great Leaders), host Michael Bunting sits down with David Woollcott, CEO of King Living, to unpack triangulation, why so many leaders fall into the role of go-between, and what to do about it.
David is the second CEO of King Living, a family-owned Sydney business founded in 1977 that designs, manufactures and retails furniture, with showrooms around the world, two large factories and around 1,300 people. He joined at the end of 2022, restructured the team and has led a stable group for about three years. He and Michael met on a flight, got chatting about culture and leadership, and Michael, who did not yet know David was a CEO, invited him onto the podcast.
Together, Michael and David explore triangulation, the pattern where people take a problem with one colleague to a third person to sort out. Michael sets the frame with Red Zone and Green Zone thinking, the research of Bowen and Friedman, and the drama triangle of victim, helper and perpetrator. David explains why a leader who steps in to smooth things over ends up infantilising the organisation, and shares the tactic he uses when people bring him a grievance: a rhetorical question, “Have you met?”, often followed by inviting the other person into the room live. He is candid about the mistake that taught him the most, forwarding a colleague’s email to the executive it criticised, which took trust from eight out of ten to two out of ten and weeks to rebuild. They also cover creative versus reactive tension, how ego, fear and ambition shape leadership behaviour, Michael’s three parts of self-regulation, and a practical process for bringing two people together, including repeating back what you heard in the same words.
What You’ll Learn:
- What triangulation is, and why Michael says it shows up in all leadership teams
- The drama triangle of victim, helper and perpetrator, and how the roles keep switching
- Why stepping in as the go-between infantilises a team and turns a leader into its counsellor
- David’s “Have you met?” tactic for grievances about a colleague, and why it takes the volume of a topic from an eight to a two
- Why debating early, with creative tension, beats blame and shame after the event
- How ego, fear and ambition drive leadership behaviour, and why noticing your ego flaring shows you have it under control
- Michael’s three parts of self-regulation: see the Red Zone pattern, own it, move into healthier behaviour
- A practical process for bringing two people together: the shared goal, early assumptions, owning your part and repeating back what you heard
- What happened to trust after David forwarded one email, and how it was rebuilt
- Why Michael sees leadership as managing discomfort, and why role modelling your own fallibility makes it safe for others
David Woollcott is the CEO of King Living, a family-owned Sydney furniture business that designs, manufactures and retails its own range. Before joining King Living in late 2022, he was UK and Europe managing director of Fisher & Paykel. Today he leads a team of around 1,300 people across a business with showrooms worldwide.
Episode Highlights:
- [00:00] Intro
- [00:58] King Living: A 50-Year-Old Family Business
- [01:40] Stepping Into the CEO Role
- [02:47] What Is Triangulation? Red Zone, Bowen and the Drama Triangle
- [08:40] Why Leaders Fall Into the Go-Between Trap
- [12:17] Why Fixing Everything Infantilises a Team
- [13:17] Creative Tension Versus Reactive Tension
- [15:09] Fear, Control and “Will You Fix All My Problems?”
- [16:44] Ego, Humility and a Third Go at the Top Job
- [20:26] Losing Trust and Rebuilding It
- [22:06] A Constant Work in Progress
- [26:02] “Have You Met?” David’s Tactic for Grievances
- [29:35] The Email That Cost David Trust
- [30:18] Leading From Calm When Frustration Flares
- [32:49] The Three Parts of Self-Regulation
- [34:11] 200% Accountability: Owning Your Part
- [35:26] How to Bring Two People Together
- [40:28] Direct and Diplomatic Cultures
- [44:34] When It Shuts Down or Turns Into Drama
- [48:06] Why Threats of Restructure Backfire
- [50:09] The Traffic Light: Hard Feedback as Care
- [51:25] Leadership Is Managing Discomfort
- [53:50] Perspective: Pull Back Before It Hurts
- [56:00] Closing: Role Model Your Own Fallibility
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